Question regarding Zigbee bindings

Hello all,

I have two Ikea Tradfri motion sensors and two Ikea Tradfri on/off switches in my ConBee II network.
For both devices, I can see groups in the old WebApp that are not visible in the Phoscon web application.

Recently, I’ve connected my living room lights to the switch-group that is only visible in the old WebApp in order to (hopefully) have created direct Zigbee bindings that also will work if the Gateway is offline.

I was wondering if the same were possible for the sensor-groups, and still have the option to have the lights only turn on from dusk till dawn, as it is currently configured in the Phoscon group? Perhaps by adding a light to the sensor groups and then issueing some REST-API-commands?

Thanks in advance,

To reply on my own post: Yes, it is possible to use the sensor group (that is only visible in the old Web app, not in Phoscon) to control the lights of that group and limit this to the time range when it is dark, but with the following limitations:

It is the sensor that does the entire controlling, when you lift the lid on the back of the sensor you can control the following using two buttons:

  • Switch on lights upon motion detection: Always or only when it is dark.
  • Power level of the lights when switched on: dimmed or full.

Nice feature:

The sensor still reports detected motion in the REST-API during daytime, even when it is configured to only switch on the lights when it is dark.

Still to be determined:

  • It is unknown to me what the sensor believes is the time range “from dusk till dawn”.
  • I yet have to perform a test with Deconz shut down, but I’m pretty confident this setup will also work with the ConBee II offline.

Will report back here if anything worth reporting happens.

To check what you can bind using the direct bind feature, you can check the cluster list on deconz.
Blue cluster are input cluster, gray are output. You need to have compatible clusters, it s for that it can’t work if you use a shutter switch with a bulb.
You need to have the group cluster too.

Raw zigbee group are working without coordinator, I have tested this, but it s possible deconz make “software zigbee group” using rules, I don’t know what deconz is capable.

It is unknown to me what the sensor believes is the time range “from dusk till dawn”

Herrr, this look more like a deconz rules than a raw zigbee group bind. The “direct bind” is realy more basic, the sensor just send a “on” or “on with timer” using broadcast request at all devices in the group when it detect something (without using the coordinator)
But I can be wrong, never tried all thoses feature.

I did some more testing today, and the news is good. I shutdown the raspberry pi and pulled the plug from its power supply, so that both deCONZ and the ConBee II stick were offline. Then I tested both Ikea sensors and switches and indeed, as I had hoped, they still worked and controlled their lights (had to switch the sensor from “nighttime” to “always” with the button to test this during daytime). So that confirms that the groups for the Ikea switches and sensors in the old web app (that can not be seen in Phoscon) are what you call raw zigbee groups that work without coordinator.

I’m glad this setup works, and only wished this were better documented. Setting up these raw zigbee groups in the old web app was super easy, I would not know how to do that in deCONZ. It would be nice to have some (or rather a lot) more explanatory videos in the Phoscon Support Youtube channel.

Here are the clusters from sensor and light. Is there a manual or video explaining direct binding using deCONZ?

I still do not know, but what I can tell is that it switches to night mode earlier than deCONZ/Phoscon, yesterday it triggered a light to go on at 20:30 local time when I passed the sensor.

There’s nice explanation from ebaauw regarding the Ikea sensor here:

Here are the clusters from sensor and light. Is there a manual or video explaining direct binding using deCONZ?

Perhaps Philips Hue Smart Button - Support Request · Issue #2077 · dresden-elektronik/deconz-rest-plugin · GitHub ?
But this is the method for 2 devices, need to use the “group bind” check, and need to find/create the group first.

I think it s easy to use the API and the “special group”, when you add a sensor that support this feature, deconz create a special group in the API (it s the one you use on the old web app), you just need to add light device to this group and deconz will make the magic.

From Ebaauwn link

As I understand, Phoscon, unlike the old web app, doesn’t support the bound group (apparently it’s too confusing). Instead, it “plays sensor” with the controller. It creates rules to control the lights (through a group)

Was, what I was trying to say, the old web app use “raw zigbee” mode, that work without the coordinator.
Phoscon have more feature, but not the same working mode, and I think it need the coordinator for them.

That’s a good one, thanks. It also shows me how very tricky manual binding using deCONZ can get, so I am really grateful that the old web app still exists for the purpose of creating raw zigbee group binds for my Ikea switches and sensors. For the purpose that I use them, I can live with the limitations that these groups have compared to the more powerful groups one can create in Phoscon.


Exactly. I only wish this were documented better. There’s a ton of useful information to be found regarding all these topics, however not in the online manual or help sections for the ConBee II stick…

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